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| Nadia Yassine, 09-19-2008 |
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| Journalist: speaking of democracy, some circles and even rather informed intellectuals hold the gloomy belief that with Islamists or Al Adl Wal Ihsane in our case, we will not be any better off. We will even be running the risk of losing this small margin of freedom we enjoy today. What would you say to that? |
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| Nadia Yassine: Stigmatizing Islamists has become very fashionable in imperialist international policy. It is the sound of a very dubious entryism. Also, it has become status quo to make Islam the enemy that needs to be eliminated and question its global perception for stereotype has it that Islam is the enemy of women, the enemy of minorities, the enemy of modernity … why don't we ever question where this hatred for political Islam otherwise known as Islamism comes from? Well, Islam is feared because it hinders savage imperialism insofar as it can make the well-oiled machine really squeak. It is this same Islamism that has produced a force that is quite popular in its homeland and is anything but obscurantist; namely Hezbollah. It is this same Islamism that endowed Turkey with enough intelligence to prevail in one of the most hostile milieus. In a word, Islamism is resented because it is the bearer of hope for oppressed peoples, in addition to being the bearer of meaning. This is how the matter should be perceived. A globalization with very ominous teeth overhangs us. I am not talking about globalization/communication between peoples but the other side of globalization that awaits us. We are stuck between an established imperialism and a rising power. We were colonized, and we are still very colonizable. In this regard, isn't Islamism a significant unifying force? Instead of listening to the hollow slogans of the ill-intentioned propaganda, it would be smarter to deepen the debate and see if Al Adl Wa Al Ihssane does really meet the criteria of terrorism or is it on the contrary a strength and a real hope for a rogue Morocco. What Al Adl Wa Al Ihssane suggests is to set in motion a genuine national debate, and by the way, we called for this debate since the lifting of the house arrest. We even started it and it had some success at first, then the various participants started retreating out of fear that the movement will be given a certain centrality in the process of democratization that is bound to take place outside the "well-trod" familiar and exclusive paths. |
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| Journalist: So that means that Al Adl Wal Ihsane does not aspire to seize power, erect and legitimate an Islamic state in Morocco. |
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| Nadia Yassine: Especially not now! Justice and Spirituality does not want to inherit a country that is shipwrecked. Only the combined efforts of all forces of the Nation may get Morocco out of its tangle. We are producers of meaning and could be a vehicle of stability as we somewhat already are, but we certainly do not want to be cheated into assuming a very tricky and heavy responsibility alone. |
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| Journalist: some parties, whether NGOs or political parties, voice the desire to see Adl Wal Ihsane becoming a political party, a fully committed actor in the management of this country. What is your answer to that? |
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| Nadia Yassine: co-opting is a classic in politics. As soon as a political force that has a popular base emerges, and I believe that Al Adl Wal Ihsane is the only real political entity in Morocco that has a genuine popular base, the power does everything to neutralize it. The Makhzen tries to involve its opponents by including them in a system that is locked, and where the rules are imposed through a system of laws but also by a Makhzenian ritual. For me there are no parties and royal prerogative, both are sides of the same coin; just as there are no executive and legislative powers. Parties see us as rivals to the extent that we interfere with the role that is officially assigned to them. The recent elections showed how great their debacle is. We surely do not want to resume their roadmap which was proven to be a deadlock. |
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| Journalist: You mentioned the recent elections. After these elections El Himma, who is currently gaining momentum, went as far as creating a movement for all democrats. What do you think of that? |
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| Nadia Yassine: This is the most recent Makhzenian circus act. It is the expression of a strategy that is very peculiar to the Makhzen. It is true that we have El Himma and other flashy personalities that have caused much ink to flow, but I think this is history repeating itself. This is not something new to the Makhzen. Parties coming out of the sleeves of the power are such a common practice. Just remember how the national assembly of independents (RNI), the constitutional union (UC) and other Moroccan parties came into being. |
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| Journalist: Yes, but in the movement of El Himma, there are also old politicians, plenty of high caliber personalities, leftists, former detainees... |
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| Nadia Yassine: That is precisely why it is all the more serious! I think that is an expression of the total failure of the Moroccan policy. There is no more Left, no opposition, what is there is a sort of Makhzenian ratatouille, a sort of sacred union against the worst. Who is Left? Who is Right? Where are the democrats when the king proclaims to be more democrat than the democrats and the democrats more royalist than the king, when the Left moved to the right and the Right moved to the left! It is utter non-sense out there. This is the sad denouement of a long tragedy that made its audience cry… dismayed by this not so free gesticulation… for it contributes to our multiple day-to-day downfalls. |
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| Journalist: what about political parties? |
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| Nadia Yassine: These are favorite walk-ons in this theatrical piece, and who by the way are not so entertaining to anyone anymore. Their traditional role of representatives of different opinions was exchanged for one of mere democratic display, and the last activists standing were trapped in the snare of participation. They try to suggest that there is a political life where there is nothing but a quiet and systematic dismembering of Moroccan people's Heritage by co-opted elite. Moroccans have lost confidence in their elites. |
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| Journalist: let's return to the PJD and the role it could have played, for it still was a great hope for Moroccans. Exactly, what do you think was the original sin they committed? |
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| Nadia Yassine: you put it quiet succinctly. What you termed a sin, the PJD is perhaps not even aware they did. With hindsight, El Youssoufi is probably now aware that he was trapped in a corrupt power that has transformed the leftist warrior knight into a doormat. Maybe the PJD will come to this realization earlier; that is if it has not already done it with the last electoral slap. But it is difficult for people to recognize their mistakes right away. |
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| Journalist: So it is a system which we can not trust at all?
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| Nadia Yassine: absolutely not! Why should we trust this system? What evidence had it given that could convince us it has changed or at least ready to do so? That's the question. |
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| Journalist: So for Al Adl Wa Al Ihssane (Justice and Spirituality), how could this process of change be initiated? You mentioned earlier the constitution but there is also the quiet serious problem of institutions. Which institutions are problematic in Morocco? |
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| Nadia Yassine: It is imperative to link the small story to the bigger history of the Arab-Muslim world. Autocracy has for too long thwarted the sacred role of conveying the message of peace and justice. We must rid Muslim peoples of this political cancer that's eating them up alive. We want to liberate the future from this long lived hostage-taking. It is a crucial struggle that can only be won in the long run. This said acting is just as crucial. We just cannot afford sitting back leisurely in the comfort of this strategic thinking. Non-violence, which is a fundamental principle, excludes rapid and spectacular actions, but does not prevent actual and immediate involvement. It induces a day-to-day work, awakening of consciences, recalling the Muslim spirituality, which is not at all opium of the people but rather an engine of change. With this involvement we have somewhere furthered Morocco. We played a significant role in the freedom of expression we enjoy right now in Morocco, for instance. Since my father lifted the taboo by writing an open letter to the king, a steady process of maturation started, and this is not a present that the power has given us because its nature has changed. On the contrary, it is the nature of our references that prompted it to make concessions. This was not the case with the left who preceded us in terms of political activism, but did not bring meaning to a people that define itself first and foremost as Muslim. They soon found themselves lacking popular support and quiet vulnerable to the wrath of Hassan II. So we have adopted this will to progress, but within our culture, within our Islamic identity and in the name of it. |
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| To return to your question, our challenge to the power in this context is to make a concrete proposal of a constitution that breaks with the spirit inherent in the current one. We propose to develop a truly democratic procedure that is capable of producing a valid Constitution. This Constitution should guarantee popular sovereignty, the separation of powers and a true representation. It should develop a system of laws that gives the right to inspect public funds and sanctions corruption at the sources. The present Constitution allows nepotism, corruption, arbitrariness and impunity to prevail. The current Constitution is a death sentence for democracy. |
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| Journalist: You think that this is a major blockage?
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| Nadia Yassine: It is the major institutional blockage. It is a major ball and chain. |
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| Journalist: from a strictly academic point of view, was Nadia YASSINE always pro-republican? |
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| Nadia Yassine: If we exclude prima facie sham republics, such as the Arab hereditary republics and banana republics, then yes. For instance, at the time of the Prophet, there was no hereditary power. He never left hereditary monarchy as a political legacy, it was imposed on us after the coup d'état Umayyad and was deliberately sanctified to serve their repressive agenda. All Qur’anic recommendations and all prophetic practices are roughly close to the republican model which etymologically speaking means public object (res publica). The power is a public matter, publicly managed by representatives chosen and authorized by the people. It was the model that prevailed during the time of the enlightened successors of the prophet peace be upon him. Other successors that came after them were false ones, not the least enlightened, except for Omar Ibn Abdelaziz who was quickly assassinated by the prevailing corrupt system. |
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| Journalist: There are quite valid monarchies, up north. I'm thinking Spain…European monarchies. |
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| Nadia Yassine: historical implications and constitutions have regulated these monarchies. My ideal would be to differentiate ourselves totally from this hereditary system that is sticking to us like a genetic heritage. This is more likely to spare us unnecessary expenses that Spain or England can afford better than an economically challenged country. However, we are very realistic and are aware of the fact that the Moroccan memory is tattooed with repression. But most importantly, we are aware that Moroccan people are a-political as a direct cause of their illiteracy. For all these reasons, we do not rule out a transition that will last as long as it takes. But we are not ready to make any concessions regarding the Constitution, which must establish truly democratic standards. |
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| Journalist: where do you think Moroccan borders should end? |
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| Nadia Yassine: I am not "Islamist" for nothing. I think that colonial borders are very subjective and were set by settlers for imperialist ends. We always try to strike a balance between the theoretical approach and the necessary realism for any coordinated change. And we are not day-dreamers. We have before us a reality to manage. The priority is to establish a democratic system which should make choices for the common good: first of all, strive for the promotion of a democratic system, educate people about this democracy or management of public affairs, teach people to have knowledgeable political approaches, then let them make their choice. Under the present circumstances our role is not to establish boundaries or revise them. We are not in power, and this spares us the obligation of taking firm positions on sensitive issues. |
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| Journalist: let's talk, for example about the management the case of the Western Sahara. |
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| Nadia Yassine: My father was unequivocal on this issue in his famous "memorandum to whom it may concern" sent to Mohammed VI. It is well known that the case was poorly managed and the Green March cannot cancel the repression and humiliation inflicted on the people of Western Sahara. And we are by principle for dignity and human rights. Now, with this said, it still is a government prerogative, and we can only declare in salon discussions should and should-not dos in matters as crucial as that of Western Sahara. The real choice is ought to be made by Moroccans themselves. Our struggle stops here for the moment. Our principles being very compatible with democracy, the priority for us is to teach people how to have well-grounded political opinions, and not to impose any on them. Witness the fact that this war was imposed on Moroccans just like all the other political and economic choices. |
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| Journalist: well, the plebiscite included Moroccans as well! |
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| Nadia Yassine: plebiscites are democratic instruments whose role is to unblock political situation that are a result of real national debates. We're not even at the level of debate yet. Moroccan policies are concocted behind closed doors. Moroccan people are taken so lightly by the power. The least they owe them is to inform them of the real implications behind this Western Sahara case. There is no cause more sacred than the inherent right to know and choose. The Moroccan people have the right to participate in a decision for which they paid so dearly. Tobji talks about the artifices behind this conflict: corruption is the real reason why this conflict has lasted so long. Let this comedy cease and let's attack the root of evil and that means pointing out the real enemies of the people: corruption and the seizure of the country's wealth by elite whose only concern is to get richer at the expense of people. The diversion is not effective anymore. |
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| Journalist: clearly, the road seems to be a very long one. |
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| Nadia Yassine: Certainly, even though saturation could be dangerous and one must be wary of it. |
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| Journalist: Let's talk more about the political projects of Al Adl Wa Al Ihssane (Justice and Spirituality), what social project Al Adl Wa Al Ihssane (Justice and Spirituality) upholds. |
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| Nadia Yassine: The social project of Justice and Spirituality is to reconnect with the meanings of the Qur'anic message. This infers a right to a memory. Memory is dangerous for some, but it is beneficial to rebuild a just society and to understand the reason for its existence. Our project is a project of reclaiming on all fronts. We reclaim Islam, which is the bearer of divine and universal values, not the opium of people or a brainwashing instrument. Our project is to offer Morocco a homogeneous force transcending all disputes and differences all the while bringing them together. We have a perilous future to face up to and it is in our best interest to be strong economically and politically, so that we can survive the greed that is looming. Only a society of confidence can face the challenges ahead. Ghassan Salame, the famous Lebanese political expert, spoke of a "democratic pact" which could manage periods of democratic transition in countries with a dictatorial tradition. He describes it as a covenant between several political entities, but raises a condition for this to work, a force that is genuinely popular and homogeneous, which can play the role of guarantor of this transition. We are obviously light years away from any consideration of this pact let alone any democratic transition, but the vagaries of history are manifold. As to the movement, it continues working for a unification of hearts, minds and consciences, and we are serving this nation whose love is a duty of faith, for better if God wills it… |
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| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------* Interview published by the newspaper "Le Soir" on April 2008. |
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